***THIS IS A RE-POST. THOUGHT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO REVISIT THIS TOPIC. WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO CHECK OUT MY BLOG SERIES: ONE SISTER TO ANOTHER.
To drink or not to drink. That is the question. Well…that is really not the question depending on what part of the Bible belt you live in and what social circles you run in, but I digress.
I sat a table with a bunch of sweet younger girlfriends the other day talking about their struggles as a 20-something in regards to “going out” with their friends. Naturally the topic turned to drinking which peaked my interest since this is such a hot topic no mater what age you are. The question was: How much do I allow myself to drink, if I do drink at all? And how do I handle this now that I’m above the legal drinking age, out from under my parent’s wing and free to make my own personal choices on this matter?
I admitted to my friends that I too have struggled with this question for many years now and I understand the plight they are in. I also respect the fact that they care enough about living in a manner that pleases God to even ask these tough questions and analyze their own behavior. Maybe you have asked yourself these same questions.
Though I do not claim to know the answers to this dilemma, I would like to offer up my thoughts and hopefully drum up a meaningful conversation around this topic. Please note: this is not a discussion about if it is Biblical to drink alcohol. But rather a discussion on…
Boundaries.
Our parents used to set boundaries. The law sets boundaries. The Bible sets boundaries. But…
What about the boundaries we set for ourselves now that we are out on our own and mature enough to make our own decisions? {note: age is not the topic here. this is a hot button regardless of how old you are, right?}
There is a plethora of Scripture that covers the topic of drunkenness, but the topic of drinking in general is a bit gray in my opinion. Since I am a VERY black and white type of person, gray areas like drinking make my head spin. I like to have lists of “do this but don’t do that.” What do you think about this set of scriptures to work off of in regards to our personal boundaries on drinking?
Romans 8:6-8 “For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
So what does a mind set on on the Spirit look like if we are out with our friends and alcohol is involved? I then turned to Galatians 5 and looked at the fruits of the Spirit. If we are doing anything in life––not just drinking––that keeps us from living out the fruit of the Spirit, that displeases God.
Here are the fruit of the Spirit as a measuring stick or boundaries, if you will.
Galatians 5:22 (paraphrased)
Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control
What if the boundaries we set for ourselves looked like this: Anytime alcohol is involved––and we partake––if the fruit of the Spirit are not then evident in our actions, thoughts and words we speak, this pushes past the boundary and does not please God.
What do you think?
Is this too simplistic?
The cool thing about this thought process is that we can apply this to other parts of life, too.
Eating
Working
Exercising
Shopping
Conversations with friends
etc.
Don’t we need boundaries in these areas of our life,too? If we are obsessed with going to the gym so much so that we lose peace about our self worth, that crosses a boundary. If we work so much that joy is lost, that crosses a boundary. If we drink too much and self-control goes out the window, absolutely a boundary is crossed.
I’m sure I will be exiled from some circles I “run” in since the topic of drinking causes people to freak out. But really, I’m not sure that I care. How can we grow spiritually if we are not real about our struggles and air them out?
I would love to know what you think and what your friends think, so please feel free to share this post with others so as to generate a great conversation. Oh and BTW, feel free to comment anonymously. :)
I agree with you 100%! I grew up being taught that alcohol was evil; that to take one drink was akin to being a drunkard. I started questioning that view when I was a senior in college. It took me 10 years (yes, 10!) of prayer and Bible study to realize that alcohol in itself is not evil. It’s what we do with it that makes a difference. I may have to print out this post and hand it to people who ask for my thoughts on drinking. You put my thoughts into words in a much better way than I ever could have. It IS about boundaries and whether your actions fall within God’s boundaries. (Although I never thought of using the fruit of the Spirit as boundaries – but it makes perfect sense to me!)
What I love about my journey towards changing my attitude on drinking is that I now know WHY I think the way I do. Instead of being told (on any subject), “this is what you should believe, believe it” and I do, I now look to the Bible to see why I’m being told {whatever}. It’s deepened my knowledge of God’s word and strengthened my faith in the process.
I love the heart of your girlfriends and how they want to show God in everything they do. I also love that they were willing to talk about the hard things. Like you said, we can’t grow if we’re not real about our struggles!
Rachel-thanks so much for taking time to reply! I used the Fruit of the Spirit because it is a list…and TYPE As like me love lists. Would love to hear any other relevant Bible verses that you all have!
love,
sarah
I really liked this post. I agree with it as well. I have a personal boundary set for myself at the ripe age of…24. I (for myself) don’t like to be around drunk people. So i dont go to clubs, partys etc because i KNOW they will be there. However, i do drink a glass of wine/sprite or a mixed drink on occassion at family get togethers on special occassions. & i know after a glass or 2 that i may start to feel effects and i wont need any more. I think its all about learning what the bible says as you’ve pointed out some scriptures & also asking the holy spirit to help you make boundaries & then stick to it. :)
This is unbelievable. Just today I was reading a blog by a fellow church member, and was horrified (once again) to see alchol on her Thanksgiving dinner table. I live in the “Bible Belt”, and I am just overwhelmed by the number of people in my church that drink alcohol! This is something I never thought I would see in churches today.
My experience with alcohol has been tainted because every person I’ve been around – when they drink – they drink to excess and become drunk. While this is a gray area in the Bible – it seems pretty clear to me. Don’t drink. You never know what will happen.
My cousin recently passed away unexpectedly. Her brother was out with his girlfriend, enjoying a few drinks on his girlfriend’s birthday – when he got the call that his sister had died. He was a very ugly drunk; he shouted obscenities, offended people, scared people – almost got arrested. When he regained his composure (and the alcohol wore off!), he apologized, and said “well, I was drinking, but I never expected this to happen.” And I responded “my point exactly”. We should never be so overcome by anything (alcohol, food, etc), that it impairs our judgment.
While boundaries are important – and necessary – we also have to consider our personal testimonies. I am a church leader, sunday school teacher, etc. If someone sees me drink, what do they think? Do they think it’s ok to drink? Will my drinking cause them to sin? Am I being a stumbling block to someone by drinking?
My friend’s blog post will not cause me to think alcohol is ok – but what about others who know she professes Christianity, goes to church, etc….will they see that glass of alcohol and think “well, she drinks, so why can’t I?” And what if one drink leads to another….etc., etc.
We have rights and boundaries….but we are to watch ourselves and not cause our brother/sister to sin either!
Roxie,
I totally respect your opinion and I thank you for taking the time to comment!
*Roxie/Sarah, could I have permission to share your comments, if I can find the right way to package them?*
My husband and I used to be an assistant pastoral couple in a church we left several months ago. It was understood that you had the liberty to drink, but it’s not a good idea, especially in public and especially if you are leadership of any kind, because it could cause someone to stumble, and that’s not acting in love (1 Corinthians 8).
My husband and I are now attending a church (not as official leadership) of another denomination than previously. We recently went to a church Christmas party and were taken aback a bit with the alcohol flowing so freely. It disturbed us some, to the point of considering leaving. At the last minute, I believe the Spirit moved and we didn’t go through with leaving (yet).
I believe the Lord has us there to be a positive influence for change there (I’m 46, hubby is 52). I have my own blog and am wondering if I should address the liberty issue or not yet. I CAN see that by hubby and I being friends with the pastor, he’s checking what we’re into, and following suit. I’m helping with the church FB page, so was given permission to put my blog (with plenty of Scripture) onto the church’s FB page feed (yay!). I truly believe there will be change first in the pastor’s heart (age 32) and then his wife (age 35).
I’m learning how powerful simply declaring His word (and not mine) can be to change a person’s heart. It’s also not so obnoxious, if done right.
Sheila!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Feel free to use anything that you might find helpful! :)
I think it should also have to do with your MOTIVES. In the past I was naive, until something terrible happened with a former coworker. Then I was careless because I had worked hard and I wanted to play hard (although I’ve never been hung over I don’t think my motives or boundaries were pure for that matter). Then I was indifferent-it didn’t bother me or upset me. Now it’s about money. I can’t afford alcohol so I just don’t unless it’s someone’s birthday or a holiday in which case someone usually provides it! So there you have it :) A personal opinion! haha
Great perspective, Renee. Didn’t think about the motives aspect.
I really liked this post as well. Like you, I love lists! And this really helped put into words things I have thought and felt for a long time. I have never had a problem with others drinking but I knew that drinking wasn’t something I should be doing. (Even though it was only one drink…I’m a light weight…1/2 a drink and I’m toast! lol) I had to put my small habit into perspective of, is this what I should be doing or what others want me to be doing. I love how you put the fruits of the Spirit into context of not just drinking but in everything we should be doing. I believe in boundaries and I believe they are set there for a reason.
Anyway, great post on this!
In my small group Bible study we are walking thru the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7). One of the things we have repeatedly noticed in this chapter is that Christ is concerned with our outward actions, but He is much more concerned with the condition of our hearts. Like Renee said, it is more about our motives than our actions.
Just this morning as I was reading Luke 1 and noticed that Gabriel told Zechariah that John the Baptist should not consume any alcohol during his life. Now, some might say, if God didn’t want John to drink then no one should drink. But this made me think, that Gabriel wasn’t condemning everyone who does drink, he simply said that John shouldn’t drink because of the plan that God had for him.
So, if God calls you personally not to drink because it might negatively influence your ministry, then don’t drink. However, stating that no Christian should ever drink seems a bit to me like a rule that we might find on a modern day version of the Pharisees “don’t do” list. Jesus clearly cares about our outward actions, but there are lots of people who are clean on the outside, yet inwardly wasting away. (Luke 18:18-31)
Great discussion!
http://speakinginfaith.wordpress.com
Good morning Sarah,
I was just flipping through some of your old entries and found this post which I thought is very important to touch on, especially for younger people in their 20s. I was wondering, do you have any particular versus that you can point out that show the harm of over indulgence or verses relating to this topic?
I like that Sarah gave examples of other over indulgences and Speaking in Faith’s reply about how the opinion to never drink is like a rule on the “don’t do” list. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen in the church or other Christians who have stated or expressed drinking as an absolute evil, but later at sometime you hear them talking in casual conversations about their social events, gossip, shopping, television, etc. I guess they feel that these types of things are not evil because they are not physically being intoxicated by something they were always taught was “bad” (alcohol), but if they are over indulging they too could be intoxicated by their own desires/wants.
Maybe I am still lost and not as great of a Christian as others, but every now and then I like to go to a club and dance (with a friend or boyfriend..not random men) and have a drink or two. I know my limits and I’m not there to partake in whatever sins others may choose to partake in for the remainder of their night. I have self control and carry myself in a respectable manner, so if I am seen drinking I can be seen doing so with self respect….I think if someone else takes that example and twists it to meet their own desires, “It must be okay to drink, get drunk, act sloppy, and go home with a stranger” then that is a sin that falls on their own shoulders.
It always comes down to the condition of your heart. If you are the sort that, while enjoying a drink, doesn’t do anything uncharacteristic of yourself, then I don’t see any problem with your choice to drink. I have chosen to drink as a part of occasion, celebration, or a moment of indulgence. But, I never allow it to be something beyond my point of control.
There’s been times where I have run into my moral compass beginning to shift, and that’s when I know that my drinking is done. There’s so many factors to drinking. And I think context is always a big part in how you are conducting yourself. I don’t condone getting a cocktail at your lunch break and going back to work, but I don’t have any disagreement with enjoying drinks with friends Saturday evening.
It doesn’t detract from my Christian witness, and in some points, it has given me the opportunity to reach in further because I don’t have the “prudish, holier than thou” stench coming from me, that some people mistakenly latch onto when you say you “don’t drink because you’re a Christian.”
Ashley!
Totally agree. Thanks for these great points!
I have read all of these post and respect everyones option. For me I don`t beleive a few drinks is a sin.
I think anything that you put above God in excess is wrong. God expects us to have self comtrol. Just like you said eating or working can be wrong if its done over the top.
Let us not for get that Jesus also turn water into wine and drank wine with his diciples. Some say it was only grape juice but if you do the history on the jewish and hebew people, it was wine. It didnt take very long for grapes to ferment .
As for the post where the church had alcohol at there party, I would be a little concern because you are to set an example for new believers who are learning and this could be a stumbleing block for them. There is time and place for everything. If you have a friend with a alcohol problem be consiterate not to drink around them just like I have a friend who is over weight and she is struggling to diet and wouldn`t sit in front of her eating a chocolate cake to be a stumbleing block for her. I know there is a verse about can`t remember where it at right now but it said that one God convicts one for he may not convicted you for. For me I try to let the Holy Spirit guide me into all truth. If God is dealing with you about this issue then you need to pray about it and see where he leads you.
Dawn!
Great thoughts! Thanks for contributing to the conversation!
I really like this post. I remember reading it once before, but as I read it again it had more meaning, and I feel led to comment. I like the scripture reference you used from Galatians regrading the the fruit of the Spirit. I think there is truth to knowing boundaries, but I am cautioned by something I taught in my Sunday School class. I was teaching on the parable of the ten virgins. The title of the lesson was Watch Out! “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. ~Matthew 24:42. Watch out because we do no know the day or hour Jesus will return. I feel this way about drinking, and any other behavior that if exercised without self-control that will attempt to destroy and undermine the purpose God has designed each of us to fulfill. I have had my struggles with drinking and other harmful activities such as sexual lust and even pornography. If I am not watchful and cross the boundary line even a little, its like a flood and the enemy zooms in for a counter attack when I most vulnerable. I am caught completely off guard because I feel a little comfortable and forget that only through Jesus and the Holy Spirit do I have this self control. I am normally not open about these weaknesses, but I hope it speaks to someone with similar struggles.
Kohl,
This is such a great point about Matthew 24:42 and like you said, it applies to so many different situations. So glad you commented!
I have been really struggling with this very subject this last week. Seen a friends post on FB, and after reading a few blogs came to this one…I am a list person…the whole fruit of the Spirit just absolutely settled things for me. Thank you so much!